Disgraces on the Menu Turned Six – Time to Blow Out the Candles Again!

Another year has elapsed – this blog just turned six!! As usual, I’d like to stop for a moment and look back at the last twelve months of blogging and podcasting. Before I do that, I would like to thank all who have been supporting me by reading, by listening, and especially by sharing their thoughts via personal messages and comments. It means a lot to me, please keep sending your feedback!

Now, back to my β€œretrospective”, so to speak. Podcasting seems to have become my main focus. This past year, I have published ten episodes featuring amazing new and returning guests: Hannah Solomon, Diana Zahuranec, Rick Zullo, Gino De Blasio, Domenica Marchetti (twice), David Scott Allen, Silvia Arduino, Alida from My Little Italian Kitchen, and Giulia Scarpaleggia, thanks for participating and for putting up with me and my questions! Recently, I also began posting full transcripts of some of my favorite episodes, and narrations of meaningful articles, starting with Il Mercato – the Tradition of the Italian Street Market.

During the year, I posted seven new recipes for as many favorite dishes: some old staples (Valdostana Onion Soup, Squash Risotto, Passato di Verdure, Oven Roasted Vegetables Stripes), and some preparations I recently discovered and fell in love with (Pesto alla Trapanese, Spaetzle-style Passatelli, Chard and Spinach Gnudi).

I also wrote three articles on food and culture; two were published as guest posts: Dried Pasta vs. Fresh Pasta (for Experience Italy Travels) and The Basic Rules of Italian Food (for Once Upon a Time in Italy), which was written after consulting with several Italian food bloggers. The third article, which was published on this blog, deals with Personal Space and the Italians, a topic I have been meaning to discuss for a while. All three posts were great fun to write, I hope you enjoyed them.

I am also happy to have connected with five more bloggers who, like me, talk about the authentic food of continental Italy. Of course, I promptly gave them the Cannolo Award. David from Cocoa and Lavender, Luca Marchiori from Chestnuts and Truffles, Coco from Coco’s Bread & Co – Eating Healthy, Giulia Scarpaleggia from Jul’s Kitchen, and Viola Buitoni from Viola’s Italian Kitchen, congratulations again!

Finally, I’d like to add a note on a technical detail. Last October, this blog was migrated to WordPress! I can’t say it was a trivial task, but the process was much smoother than I initially thought – a testament to the platform and its amazing community. I hope you are enjoying the new layout and functionality.

All in all, year six has been a great year, with lots of new connections and ideas. I am very much looking forward to year seven with the same enthusiasm as when I started in 2010!

Thanks again and… Salute!

Personal Space – Why Italians Seem to Require Less of it

Proxemics, the study of interpersonal communication, defines β€œpersonal space” as the cylinder of air surrounding each person which people consider as an extension of their body. The personal radius is largest between strangers and shrinks down the more people know one another, reaching zero (physical contact) for parent-child relationships and for couples. The personal radius also varies according to the difference in social ranking: individuals seem to demand more personal space when surrounded by people that they consider of lower social status, as a form of respect they think they deserve.

In North America, the standard socially acceptable distance between acquaintances having a conversation is around 4 feet. In Italy, instead, the norm is 2-3 feet(1), a distance that North Americans tend to reserve for intimate relationships. In Italy, it’s also common for people to establish extended physical contact when having an exchange. For instance, a person may reach for a friend’s forearm as a way to communicate openness and honesty or walk arm in arm with a coworker (of any gender) as they discuss something confidential.

The difference in the amount of personal space that people require can also be seen in the way they greet one another. In Italy, especially in the south, the double kiss on the cheeks is the standard greeting between acquaintances, not the business-like handshake. In North America, the hug (which is the equivalent of the double kiss) is instead reserved for close friends and family.

When forced in a tight environment such as an overcrowded transit vehicle, people adopt strategies to cope with the invasion of personal space. A theory is that they start to see others as lifeless(2), avoid eye contact, and wear their don’t-talk-to-me face. But things get even more interesting when there is enough space for people to decide how to arrange themselves, but not enough for them to fulfill their personal space requirements. This is the case for instance in a 10-person occupancy elevator, with 6 people in it.

  • In North America, people tend to line up towards the door, staring at the void and trying to move to the back when they know they’re going to be the last out, and to the front, if they’re going to be first.
  • In Italy people consider it rude to turn their back to others. This, combined with their general tendency to refuse to line up, results in people orienting themselves in a circle, turning their backs to the elevator’s walls.

people in an elevator

The higher tolerance of Italians for an invasion of their personal space also reflects in their inclination to violate somebody else’s. As an example, when queuing up in a crowded post office, it’s relatively normal for people to end up shoulder to shoulder or in physical contact with the person in front, leaning against them slightly as to apply a gentle push (perhaps under the unconscious assumption that it can make the line go faster). This can also be observed when people crowd towards the counter when waiting to order their espresso, an operation which requires catching the barista’s eyes as soon as they inquire into who’s next.

But what is the cause of the different social behaviors and the varying level of interpersonal contact? One theory is that less personal space may be the result of living in densely populated cities. But this is not a sufficient condition. The Japanese, for instance, live in even tighter spaces than the Italians, and yet they are notoriously a no-contact society.

A more likely theory is that the populations of southern Europe and Latin America belong to highly expressive cultures traditionally devoted to living a communal life centered around churches and piazzas. This is likely due to the necessity of helping one another in regions of scarce resources and facilitated by the clemency of the weather. People belonging to these populations have become accustomed to collaborating with one another, which has made them emotionally and physically closer.

Besides the need for interaction, the tendency to grab people’s arm and pull them closer during a conversation may also derive from the necessity to be discrete when sharing private information. In that regard, a great example of confidential exchange is the one that catholic Italians are exposed to during confession, a sacrament bound to secrecy which requires the penitent and confessor to come close and whisper to one another.

But personal space can also be violated from far apart. This can be seen for instance in the way some Italians choose to be overly loud in public. Even if they are having a business conversation on the phone, they may raise their voice and begin gesticulating in order to establish their territory. In doing that they project confidence and power, they establish their social status and therefore enlarge their personal space.

There is one place, however, where Italians seem to require more privacy than North Americans: public toilets. In North America, the stalls are often only partially enclosed and the urinals can be side by side without any screens between them, or they may even be replaced with a communal trough. In Italy, instead, public bathrooms are often built with urinals that are well divided and stalls that are fully enclosed. One possible explanation for this difference is that by building open bathrooms, people are forced not to take advantage of these spaces as if they were personal (e.g. to conduct something illegal or immoral in it). Italians instead are less concerned with illegality or immorality, they care more about how they appear in public and therefore demand more privacy when they can’t look at their best.

___________
(1) Edward T. Hall (1990). The Hidden Dimension.
(2) Sommer, Robert (1967). Sociofugal Space. American Journal of Sociology.
Featured Image: Palio di Siena by Janus Kinase [CC BY-SA 2.0], via Wikimedia Commons.

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[Thoughts on the Table Transcript] The Italian Wine Culture, with Diana Zahuranec

Last summer, in a podcast episode Diana Zahuranec discussed the differences between Italy and North America in how wine is produced, as well as socially perceived. Diana also went over Piedmont’s native grape varieties and wine appellations. As part of Thoughts on the Table Transcripts, this post contains the textual version of Diana’s episode.

 

Listen to the original episode

 

Paolo Rigiroli
Hello and welcome to thoughts on the table, the audio blog on food and food culture. Paolo here back with a recurring guest today, with me is Diana Zahuranec! Hi Diana.
Diana Zahuranec
Hi Paolo, it’s great to be back!
Paolo Rigiroli
I’m super happy to have you back, Diana, people have been commenting on your podcast – one of the most successful podcast [we had] was the one on the mediterranean diet we just had in January, this year.
Diana Zahuranec
Oh, that’s great – yeah.
Paolo Rigiroli
You know, you have this amazing ability to capture Italian culture and describe the Italians better than I would be able to do, being maybe too Italian…
Diana Zahuranec
Well, that must be the anthropologist in me that can observe.
Paolo Rigiroli
Yeah, it’s possible – you’re studying us. That’s what it is. But, anyway, Diana has been living in Italy for 4 years now and she works at Wine Pass, an online magazine on wine in the Piedmont area, correct?
Diana Zahuranec
Yes, it’s exactly correct, it’s in Italian and English, and it’s geared towards wine tourists that are coming to Piedmont.
Paolo Rigiroli
Excellent, and so wine – we can say – is pretty much your job right now, right?
Diana Zahuranec
Pretty much, yes (laughs)
Paolo Rigiroli
Which is fantastic because we finally get on the topic. So, yes, wine is defining of the Italian culture itself and I’d love talking about wine [in this podcast]. But, how did you get to be interested in wine – how did it start?
Diana Zahuranec
Well, my interest in wine naturally started over here, in Italy, because I moved here after college, therefore most of my time in the US I was younger and didn’t actually drink wine. And so I came to Italy, I went to the University of Gastronomic Sciences in Pollenzo [Piedmont] for a one-year masters program in Food Culture and Communications-
Paolo Rigiroli
That’s the Slow Food university, right?
Diana Zahuranec
Exactly, it’s the Slow Food university. And, during this year-long program, we had a lot of different kinds of classes and many of them would last just a couple of weeks because [we had several professors which] came from all over the world. And several kinds of these classes were tasting classes on salumi, or chocolate, or cheeses and there was also a tasting class on wine.
Paolo Rigiroli
Mhh, pretty tough there! (laughs)
Diana Zahuranec
Yeah (laughs)… β€œDifficult year” in Italy… And in these tasting classes there were black glasses set up in the classroom – they were opaque of course. Each one had a smell that you could find in a wine. And what we did we smelled these without looking inside and we would write down what we thought the scent was. Whether it was vanilla, or pineapple, or… something. And then we would look and see if we got it right. And it was incredible – the more we did it, after just a couple of lessons we started being able to identify it right away and we could even identify the same smell in the wines. And it was just incredible how much of a difference that made in tasting wines.
Paolo Rigiroli
Interesting.
Diana Zahuranec
Yeah, I don’t like how wine is often a very intimidating drink to people, because just knowing a little bit more about wine […] it makes it so much more enjoyable. And it’s not that difficult. So, that’s how I started getting interested in wine.
Paolo Rigiroli
It’s amazing. And now you work at Wine Pass, so I suppose you have been continuing to discover more and more about wine. And tasting more wines?
Diana Zahuranec
Yes, exactly. At Wine Pass I write a lot about the different wines of the region, or wine makers, or we go on itineraries for wine tourists and we write them out, we map them out, tell people where they could eat or buy a bottle of wine, and so forth. And the more I write about this, the more I learn about wines and wine makers in the region, and it’s very interesting. I’m always learning more about wine here.
Paolo Rigiroli
Yeah. I’m very interested to know if there is any differences in wine production between North America and Italy, for what you were able to observe there, in Piedmont.
Diana Zahuranec
There are huge differences! Of course I didn’t actually ever go and visit wineries in Napa, and I don’t know a ton about American wine, but I know a lot more about the differences in the American and Italian culture. And I do know… that a big difference is the size of wineries. In general, the average Piemonte winery is small – it’s a family production. I think that it goes without saying for all of Italy that a lot of the wineries here are small. You can consider a big winery to make about maybe 500 thousand bottles a year, and a really big one maybe a million bottles in a year, whereas in the United States a big winery could make several million cases, and in a case are 12 bottles of wine! So that’s a huge difference.
Paolo Rigiroli
I see, I see, so the size… Which I suppose goes with the size of the territory.
Diana Zahuranec
Yes, it does, definitely. And so that kind of gives a difference in the mentality. Because if you’re a small winery, you’re doing all the work, you’re doing everything. From the wine-making, you’re in the cellar, you’re in the vineyard. You are producing the wine, and you are promoting it too – you’re inviting guests into the wineries, so you’re doing everything. Whereas these big wineries [in the US] are great at accommodating people and making a profit off of it… because they can charge people when they come in and taste wines. These wineries in Italy, I can think of maybe one that would charge you to actually go on a tour…
Paolo Rigiroli
Well, I guess they’re proud of it. And they’re not used to having too many visitors as well, I suppose. It’s their family business. So, it’s not just a job – they will take you through and show you everything. As oppose to, you know, you [meeting] the public relations representative for the company. And maybe tours are one of the services offered – whether it’s for money or not – but it’s still just your job – right?
Diana Zahuranec
Exactly, exactly. There’s a lot of passion. It’s their life. It’s what they do all year round, all the time.
Paolo Rigiroli
Yeah, I remember my experience about Piedmont and wine is [that] my dad used to order wine from Piedmont, a place called Lu [in the Monferrato region] – a very small town. This maker was extremely small, and I remember every year we would go and he would order the wine and then he would get it shipped and then he would bottle it himself in my grandma’s basement. And, me and my brother, which we were like 8 and 4, were there to help bottling the wine. Which may sound crazy to North Americans… that kids are involved in the production… But that’s the thing – kids don’t like wine because it’s kind of an acquired taste and we were never interested… But, going back to Piedmont, I remember visiting this production and particularly the cellars – this super cool, dark place, and cool in temperature too – it was like, maybe 16 Celsius? – And then they would get a little bit of wine out of these kegs and pour it in a nice glass, and bring it upstairs, to taste it on the kitchen’s table. And this is how my dad would choose which wines to order.
Diana Zahuranec
Ohh, that’s so nice!
Paolo Rigiroli
Yeah. It was fantastic, that’s still my memory. So I’m imagining that this scales to the entire region, pretty much…
Diana Zahuranec
Yes.
Paolo Rigiroli
And, what about the process itself… the actual production. Do you know of any differences, on the technical side?
Diana Zahuranec
I don’t know a lot about the technical processes of winemaking, in the two different countries, but I do know that California uses a lot of water and irrigation, whereas in Piedmont they don’t, it’s a lot of dry cropping. As of maybe two years ago, I think, they allowed certain regions to use water in extreme droughts… but I know that in general they don’t use irrigation at all. They kind of look at [irrigation] as β€œforcing the plant”, you know, it’s not its natural habitat, you’re forcing it to drink water when nature wouldn’t give it to it.
Paolo Rigiroli
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diana Zahuranec
And actually this is another thing that is different between here and the US, as much as I know. This goes hand in hand with their practices in the field, which are very often organic, but not actually certified. They’re organic and they are sustainable, but they’re not certified. Because they do it out of respect for the vine and for the vineyard, they don’t try to find loopholes in organic [food] certification where they can use a little bit of one chemical, or not, but they really try not to use any chemicals at all, many winemakers don’t. So this is good news…
Paolo Rigiroli
Yes, absolutely and I noticed this in general, in Italy and Italian products, β€˜organic’ (or β€œagricoltura biologica” as they say) is present and you can find it even in supermarkets, there’s a section on organic food, but it’s not as trendy as it is here.
Diana Zahuranec
Right.
Paolo Rigiroli
I think that in general the consensus is that there isn’t much difference with respect to regular produce and there certainly isn’t much [difference] in flavor in Italy, I find.
Diana Zahuranec
Oh, no. No, there’s not a difference in flavor at all.
Paolo Rigiroli
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diana Zahuranec
Actually, the organic might even be not less flavorful, but β€œolder” because people don’t really buy it and so the products get old quickly.
Paolo Rigiroli
Exactly. Not as fresh. Yeah. What about instead the differences in culture? What is your experience with that? How do you see Italians relate to wine?
Diana Zahuranec
Yes, that’s a very big difference from the US and Italy because wine is really a part of [the Italian’s] daily life and it always has been.
Paolo Rigiroli
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diana Zahuranec
Even a glass of wine at lunch time is not looked down upon and it’s always drunk with food. It’s not really this special drink for only special people during parties or other holidays, but it’s an everyday drink that you have with your food. The difference with that in the U.S. is that I see often in movies or television shows or pictures on Instagram, for example, people will have their full glass of wine by their computer as they work.
Paolo Rigiroli
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diana Zahuranec
Or they’ll have one right as they come home from work to unwind and de-stress and it’s seen … To an Italian, I think that would be like taking it out of its context. I’m not saying it’s bad to drink it like that, but it doesn’t make sense to an Italian to drink it like that. It makes sense to drink wine with food. It’s part of the meal.
Paolo Rigiroli
Yeah, appreciation of food itself is to have it with a little bit of wine and pair it. If you’re having fish, of course you’re going to prefer a white wine and red wine will go, of course, with meats and cheeses, especially hard cheeses.
Diana Zahuranec
Yes. And a lot of the times these reds, or these white wines, if you have it without food, it just isn’t the same. Piedmont is famous for having very tannic wines.
Paolo Rigiroli
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diana Zahuranec
Which is tannins are that feeling on your tongue of having a dry wine. It can get a little bit tiring on your palate if you just keep drinking wine after wine.
Paolo Rigiroli
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diana Zahuranec
Which I’ve noticed at different tastings with Nebbiolo, [which] is one in particular that’s very tannic. We can talk about that later, but… If you just drink this wine without having any food with it, you miss out on a lot of flavors and a lot of the enjoyment because… it’s just too much to handle, basically.
Paolo Rigiroli
Interesting.
Paolo Rigiroli
We already mentioned that you are based in Piedmont, of course, and Nebbiolo is one of the wines that you have been tasting. Would you say that that’s one of your favorites?
Diana Zahuranec
It is definitely my favorite. The favorite. It makes… several famous wines that come from Piedmont, such as Barolo and Barbaresco. But it also makes a lot of other wines, always from Piedmont, such as a Langhe Nebbiolo, there’s a Roero Nebbiolo, or different Nebbiolos from Alto Piemonte, like Boca, and Ghemme, and Gattinara.
Paolo Rigiroli
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diana Zahuranec
There’s so many, and every time you taste them, even though it’s 100% Nebbiolo grape, they all taste different.
Paolo Rigiroli
Yes.
Diana Zahuranec
They all have a very different profile, and it’s so interesting and I just love Nebbiolo. Never disappoints.
Paolo Rigiroli
All these wines are based on the same grape and they’re just aged in different ways to achieve a different product, a different wine that is a different denomination, correct?
Diana Zahuranec
Right. Or maybe people would understand more appellation? I don’t which one is used more, but that’s right. Although the differences come also from the soil or altitude.
Paolo Rigiroli
Right. Nebbiolo itself is also an appellation. It’s not just the name of a grape.
Diana Zahuranec
Right.
Paolo Rigiroli
It’s also one of my favorites, by the way. I do like that family of wines as well. I don’t like wines that are too mellow. I don’t know, if I can describe that…
Diana Zahuranec
Yeah, it’s definitely … No, it’s definitely not a mellow wine. They’re very… At the same time, they’re elegant and powerful.
Paolo Rigiroli
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diana Zahuranec
It’s hard to explain that unless you actually drink it and understand how the wine is. It’s a really great wine.
Paolo Rigiroli
Yeah, and [about] Nebbiolo, also there’s a curiosity about the name, which I happen to know. I’m sure you want to talk about it.
Diana Zahuranec
Sure. Yeah, Nebbiolo comes from the word ‘nebbia’, which means fog in Italian and it takes its name from this because the fog is a big part of the landscape in Piedmont… And Nebbiolo is a late maturing grape that has a very long growing cycle. It’s harvested whenever the mists start to roll in, in the late fall. That’s why it takes it’s name from ‘nebbia’.
Paolo Rigiroli
Fantastic. It’s always fascinating to picture it. When I think of Nebbiolo, I do see the rolling hills covered in fog. It kind of makes it really magic. It’s really cool. What about other grapes in Piedmont?
Diana Zahuranec
Oh, yes. Piedmont has a lot of different native varieties. The big ones (that actually are produced even more than Nebbiolo) are Barbera [and] Dolcetto, two big red grape varieties.
Paolo Rigiroli
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diana Zahuranec
White ones are Moscato and Arneis. Then there are lots of others. I mean, tons of these obscure names, especially in the higher hills.
Paolo Rigiroli
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diana Zahuranec
But others that you might come across, for red wines are the Verduno Pelaverga.
Diana Zahuranec
And there’s Grignolino, RuchΓ© and Freisa, these are all red wines. And red grape names as well, the wine is named after the grape. For other whites that you may find, there’s Gavi, Erbaluce, Nascetta, and Favorita. And these are all other names that you might find around. I think, Gavi and Erbaluce for the white wines, you will find more commonly abroad than the others, but obviously the Moscato and Arneis and the big names that I’ve already named, you will be able to find those abroad.
Paolo Rigiroli
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Do you have more information on any of these wines? Like Barbera or Dolcetto?
Diana Zahuranec
Yeah, Barbera and Dolcetto are the names of the grapes and then they make a lot of different wines and you’ll find them named after like Barbera d’Alba, Barbera d’Asti. The same thing with Dolcetto and that comes from where they’re made. So β€˜d’Alba’ means β€˜from Alba’, β€˜d’Asti’, β€˜from Asti’, which is in the Monferrato, a winemaking region in Piedmont. Dolcetto, for example, you might find Dogliani. It might just be called Dogliani, even though it’s Dolcetto di Dogliani. That’s another place where it’s made, or Dolcetto di Ovada, which is a really great Dolcetto.
Paolo Rigiroli
And all these are wines which are D.O.C., as we say in Italy, so that the denomination of origin is controlled.
Diana Zahuranec
Yes.
Paolo Rigiroli
Which means that they are certified to be produced from grapes from that particular region that their appellation refers to. Is that correct?
Diana Zahuranec
Exactly. Yes, it also puts some different guarantees on the quality and the time that it’s aged.
Paolo Rigiroli
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diana Zahuranec
How many months or in what kind of material it’s aged in, wood or stainless steel. It depends of course on the wine. And then there’s D.O.C.G., which is, you could say one step higher.
Paolo Rigiroli
Yes.
Diana Zahuranec
And of course you can find wines of great quality that aren’t even certified at all.
Paolo Rigiroli
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Diana Zahuranec
But this is just a general rule to figure out what those letters mean on the labels.
Paolo Rigiroli
Yeah, absolutely. I think if you’re not familiar with the wine, it’s a good thing to look for the certification because it will give you certain guarantees. Diana, it has been fantastic, of course, talking with you. It’s so fascinating and I wish really to take a tour now in Piedmont and go through all those valleys and try all the wines that you mentioned, because I do know a few of them, but I can’t say that I’m an expert, so I definitely have work to do.
Diana Zahuranec
Oh yeah, you should visit. You’re invited and anyone listening to the podcast is invited to come to Piedmont.
Paolo Rigiroli
Absolutely. You’ll take them around personally.
Diana Zahuranec
Yes (laughs).
Paolo Rigiroli
That’s what Diana is promising you (laughs).
Paolo Rigiroli
So, for you listening, if you have enjoyed this podcast, please do us a favor. Go on iTunes or whichever podcast player you use and subscribe. It really means a lot to us, and if you’re inclined, please leave a review as well on iTunes. Feedback is always welcome. Leave your comments there or on the blog. We’re very happy to hear anything you may have to say and it’s really important to us. Diana, again, thank you so much. It’s been awesome.
Diana Zahuranec
It has been great – thank you.

[Thoughts on the Table – 39] A Christmas Episode, with Gino De Blasio

I’ve always wanted to talk about Panettone, Pandoro, and other traditional Christmas food in Italy. When Gino De Blasio suggested that we should do a podcast on the subject, I got very excited. We then arranged the recording, and my excitement can fully be heard in the show πŸ™‚

In this episode, Gino and I discuss the difference between Panettone and Pandoro, and how such difference very much divides the Italians. We also mention a savory preparation called Panettone Gastronomico, which is traditionally served as an appetizer before the Christmas meal. Finally, we talk about ‘cotechino con lenticchie’ the traditional Italian New Year’s Eve dish, and the superstitions that surround it.

Gino and I would like to wish you happy and safe holidays, whether you’ll be having Pandoro or Panettone πŸ™‚ Thanks everyone for listening and in advance for your feedback!

You can follow Gino on his website, as well as on Twitter.

   

[Thoughts on the Table Transcript] Gino De Blasio on Slow Food/Fast Food

Continuing on the series of transcripts, up next is the textual form of an old episode with my friend, writer Gino De Blasio. In this podcast, Gino applies his amazing storytelling to describe the origins of the Slow Food Movement, in response to the fast-food orientated mentality that was spreading in Italy in the β€˜80s.

 

Listen to the original episode

 

Paolo Rigiroli
Hello and welcome to the audio blog, Paolo here for another episode of Thoughts on the Table with Gino De Blasio. Hi Gino, good morning, good afternoon actually today. How are you?
Gino De Blasio
Not too bad. Good morning to you Paolo. How are you?
Paolo Rigiroli
Good. Today we connected in the afternoon for Gino and morning for me. Much better, I have to say. Today, a-
Gino De Blasio
Everybody feels more polite.
Paolo Rigiroli
Yes, it’s more ourselves, I think, I hope. We’ll see. Anyway, yeah, today a different topic, today we’re going to talk about slow food and fast food. Gino, you were saying, you would like to start with some history of the slow food movement.
Gino De Blasio
Yeah, and I think it’s a fantastic area, fantastic moment in food history. You have to go back to, this is me now storytelling, so kids try and keep awake, so you have to go really back to the mid 1980s. It was a time where capitalism, free market economics was rife. You have the Reagan era in the States, the Thatcher era in the UK. It was really at the forefront of thinking. Communism was being broken down from the east slowly and surely.
Gino De Blasio
You have to think of this very wobbling time of what you could regard as really a capitalist machine, a capitalist model. What was behind that really in terms of food was fast food. Now, in 1986, at the height of this capitalism, the golden arches of McDonald’s sent Carlo Petrini into shock.
Paolo Rigiroli
Italy already had some fast food chains. There was in the north, I don’t know if it was widespread all over Italy or not, a chain called β€œBurghy”.
Gino De Blasio
Yes.
Paolo Rigiroli
A few of us would remember. β€œBurghy” is Italian pronunciation of β€œburgy” [from burger]. You were right, fast food was up and coming and a lot of people were interested.
Gino De Blasio
Yeah. There was this fascination because culturally, you just look at the films that were being produced. 1980’s Italy was probably what you would say at its lowest in terms of quality. Foreign films were all the rage. If you look at the 1980s films, they were really highlighted by the Spielberg era, the Back to the Futures. Which it was so popular, I mean it was popular everywhere, but in Italy people were talking about the Delorean because they were so fascinated about the car, all these things.
Gino De Blasio
That’s what it was embodying. That’s what it was trying to capture. I think Italy was trying to capture it through this idea of the food. Basically, Carlo Petrini, he started this movement in 1986 because McDonald’s opened on the Spanish steps.
Paolo Rigiroli
That was his first McDonald, is that right?
Gino De Blasio
I think that was the first McDonald’s in Italy.
Paolo Rigiroli
In Italy, that’s right.
Gino De Blasio
It was in a lot of ways being accepted. This will be the norm, and that was Petrini was against. In fact, he was against this idea that food isn’t being savored, both in the preparation and in the execution and in the tasting. He conjured up this brilliant movement called the slow food movement. Really, the way to think of it is take the recipes from old, from yesteryear, we’ve spoken about it in the previous podcast, La Cucina Povera, those elements, but bring them to the forefront of our imagination again. We spoke last week about the polpette in a sauce. Now, that is slow food. All of these things which are classical home and rustic dishes, that’s what the slow food movement started to bring back to our imaginations. It was moving away from this capitalistic drive, and a lot of people see it as this anti-globalization movement.
Paolo Rigiroli
Yeah, that’s part of it.
Gino De Blasio
In terms of food, it actually is because it’s taking the local ingredients, local chefs, and bringing it altogether. I speak with a smile in my voice because it is a fantastic, fantastic movement, and one which I think can be unique to every nation.
Paolo Rigiroli
Yes, yeah.
Gino De Blasio
It’s absolutely amazing, and I think if you were to look at, for example, there’s a … Can I say his name? The celebrity chef?
Paolo Rigiroli
Yeah, of course you can. Yeah, absolutely.
Gino De Blasio
Jamie Oliver with his Ministry of Food. That is almost going into the slow food movement in some regards. That’s about actually growing your own food, about making things basic in the kitchen, and giving people cooking lessons, which is what the slow food movement has become in Italy with Petrini’s latest Eat Italy.
Paolo Rigiroli
Yes, yeah.
Gino De Blasio
It’s that one world Eat Italy, all is one, Eataly. These are big complexes where people can go to learn about how you grow your food, how you eat your food, where your food chain comes from. It’s all part of this movement which is really, like you said, it’s trying to dig back into the past and say, “This is what it is, fantastic to have it.”
Paolo Rigiroli
It’s also behind the Salone del Gusto, the Salon of Taste that takes place in Turin in October. I think it’s every two years.
Gino De Blasio
Every two years.
Paolo Rigiroli
Yeah.
Gino De Blasio
Yeah, I remember reading something about like how it was they have all these competitions of regional cuisine and some of the things. In your experience, fast food in Italy, apart from the burger of the 80s, how is it regarded? How do you see it as being considered?
Paolo Rigiroli
Well, a lot of Italian food is fast by nature. A pizza takes 90 second to cook. Fast food doesn’t necessarily mean a bad thing. There are a lot of chains that do produce something that can be considered fast food, the Autogrill chain, or Spizzico, Ciao. These are owned by large organizations. Yeah, probably the slow food movement would have a lot against them. However, in my opinion, they do make something that is quite authentic. Overall, they provide a service which is useful when you’re traveling and often you’re driving around Italy, and stopping at the Autogrill is a very refreshing experience, and sometimes, you may even have a good meal. Actually, often you do have a good meal.
Gino De Blasio
Yeah, I mean, this is probably for another podcast about service station meals.
Paolo Rigiroli
Oh yeah, very interesting.
Gino De Blasio
Yeah, there’s a whole podcast in it, but the one thing that I will always get for my friends who travel to Italy, if they’ve ever had to drive a car, there will always be stories, firstly, how they were scared for their lives whilst driving, and the second one is how well they ate.
Paolo Rigiroli
Yeah. It is remarkable.
Gino De Blasio
It is amazing. You get such a variety, and it’s so cheap, which is the complete opposite to, well, in England where you look and get four times a price of what it would normally cost and it taste absolutely awful.
Paolo Rigiroli
Yes. I think Autogrill is relatively cheap compared to a restaurant but is fairly priced. I’ll have to say, it’s not the level of other fast food chains where really the race for the lowest possible price seems to always be there. Frankly, shocks me to see that you can get a burger for 1.75. One eats that not because it’s the best way to use the $1.75, but because it’s the fastest, the easiest way.
Gino De Blasio
I noticed there’s more McDonald’s in Italy.
Paolo Rigiroli
Yeah.
Gino De Blasio
I think people have become more accustomed to it. McDonald’s has had to change its menu for Italy. It’s now offering pasta, which you won’t find in England. I think it’s trying to cater for the local palate.
Paolo Rigiroli
Also, there is a place for a chain, especially in the big cities, when people live a very frenetic life and they need to get from Place A to Place B and grab lunch in-between.
Gino De Blasio
Yeah, and I think as long as the market demands it, there will always be a McDonald’s or a Burger King. I keep on saying McDonald’s but I think-
Paolo Rigiroli
Oh yeah, it’s not just McDonald’s.
Gino De Blasio
A generic fast food equivalent, which is why Spizzico has come about. People want a piece of pizza. It’s great idea. It’s a grab and go. It is what it is. It’s not the pizza which might be which my pizzaiolo makes.
Paolo Rigiroli
No, absolutely.
Gino De Blasio
Admittedly also, I get much better customer service from the Spizzico than I do from my pizzaiolo (laughs).
Paolo Rigiroli
Very good point (laughs).
Gino De Blasio
I’m usually getting a lot and lots and lots, into a lot of trouble with my pizzaiolo…
Paolo Rigiroli
We should be talking sometime about customer service in restaurants-
Gino De Blasio
Oh, that’s even another podcast… Yeah, we got service station, customer service.
Paolo Rigiroli
Yeah, I wrote articles on both my blog. You can read about my view of Autogrill and my view of customer service in restaurants. A lot of interesting considerations, I think, that one can make. A good travel guide for people that want to visit Italy and venture themselves into what customer service is or isn’t.
Gino De Blasio
Yeah (laughs).
Paolo Rigiroli
It’s all relative, I think we’re used to it a little bit too much in Italy. Personally, I think it could be better, but at the same time-
Gino De Blasio
I don’t think it’d be hard to improve.
Paolo Rigiroli
No. It won’t be hard to improve. I am the first to admit it and I am sorry. I apologize to all the people that didn’t get treated the way they do at home. However, people go to restaurants for the food more than for the hospitality. You go to somebody who is the owner. It’s not your host necessarily. It’s the person that owns the place, and you adapt to their customs and their rules, as long as they feed you what you know they can make and make really well. We’re willing to put up with that. Yeah, we should talk about it some other time, so much to say.
Gino De Blasio
So much. We’ve spoken at large about really the slow food movement. We’ve touched upon the fast food moment. Where do you see Italy now? Do you see it turning more towards the slow food or do you feel that we’ll be a cultural shift to more fast food orientated mentality? What do you see happening?
Paolo Rigiroli
I think that the slow food doesn’t need to be a movement in Italy, necessarily. There is a large resistance built-in with the Italians. Fast food would naturally be there and grow, reach its potential, but it won’t takeover slow food. There is no such risk. You may even start to see a Starbucks, just to name some more brands in this episode. I don’t think espresso will ever be lost in there and the many non-chains that make fantastic espresso in every Italian city. There’s no risk because of there’s such a at base palate that is entrenched in the people from Italy. You’ll occupy as much room as the Italian allow it to occupy, and then the rest will still be family dining and traditional restaurants.
Gino De Blasio
I certainly agree. I certainly think coffee, it’s not that I don’t think I’ll ever see a Starbucks, but I don’t ever think I’ll see the fruition of Starbucks or all the large chains. I think one of big thing would be trying to make people queue for their coffee. I can’t see that in Italy. I don’t think it would go down well, because of the culture where you walk in, you stand at the bar, within a minute, you’ve got your espresso.
Paolo Rigiroli
Yeah.
Gino De Blasio
The word espresso means quick. This morning I went to have a coffee in a chain and it took me nearly 8 minutes to get served and there was only one person in front of me. It is like, that just couldn’t happen. It just couldn’t.
Paolo Rigiroli
Yeah, it’s weird. It’s the double-edged sword of good customer service. If they’re too good with the person in front of you, it may get very, very slow. In Italy, it wouldn’t be acceptable. You know what you gain, you know what you lose too, because there’s no way you can have a conversation with your barista because he’s got to move. He’s got to get on the next one really quickly.
Gino De Blasio
As my granddad always say to me I many occasions, most things in Italy are slow, apart from the cars and the coffee. I think that’s different. Coming back to where we see Italian food moving, I think what would might be successful is something which is almost marks it really on a slow food ideology of the produce that we get is from a ten-mile radius from here. Things like that. I think that would see more success.
Paolo Rigiroli
Yeah, the β€˜eating local’ idea, I think, would be welcome. It does already happen. In Italy, we’re fairly lucky that we can grow a lot of produce locally, not all of it, but some more than other, more northern countries where it’s harder to produce locally without expensive greenhouses. I think it may become more of a trend to advertise that and enforce it.
Gino De Blasio
Yes, yeah.
Paolo Rigiroli
Gino, I think we got to the end of this episode. It was a very fascinating discussion for me. I’ve learned a lot researching about it and talking about it with you, Gino, this morning. I hope that you people listening have enjoyed it. We’re looking forward to your feedback as usual. Please contact us. There are several ways, on the website, on my blog, disgracesonthemenu.com, on Gino’s blog….
Gino De Blasio
Paolo Rigiroli
As well as through our Twitter and Facebook handles. You will find them very easily on the websites. Thanks very much for listening. We’ll get back to you with another episode shortly. Bye-bye.
Gino De Blasio
Take care.

My Guest Post on The Basic Rules of Italian Food

A few weeks ago, Diana Zahuranec, friend and recurring podcast guest, asked me if I was interested in writing a guest post for her blog:Β Once Upon a Time in Italy. Having livedΒ in Italy for 5 years, Diana couldn’t help but notice that, when it comes to food, the otherwise chaotic Italians seem to follow a set of unwritten rules. As an example, no Italian would dareΒ cutting spaghetti in the plate, and if they could they would personally stop anyone who tried!

Naturally, I accepted. But to try to be as complete and fair as possible, I enlisted several foodiesΒ to help me identify the subset of habits that can be considered as general, those that most Italians would recognize as rules. This is howΒ The Basic Rules of Italian FoodΒ was born!

As you visit Diana’s blog, don’t miss her great articles on exploring Piedmont, on life in Italy, on writing, as well as her recipes andΒ food stories.

I would like to thank Diana for the opportunity, as well as the fellow bloggers and friendsΒ that helped with the article, particularly:Β Cristina Pepe,Β Pola M,Β Ilaria M,Β Marta,Β Fernando Santagata,Β and Simona Carini.

[Thoughts on the Table Transcript] Frank Fariello from Memorie di Angelina

Back in March 2014, I had the pleasure of having Frank Fariello (Memorie di Angelina) on a podcast. In the episode, we discussed the differences between Italian-American cooking and the food of Italy, a topic on which Frank is remarkably insightful, being a third generation Italian-American who lived in Rome for 10 years.

This post presents the same interview in textual form as an enjoyable read, and as a searchable reference.

 

Listen to the original episode

 

Paolo Rigiroli
Hello, and welcome to the audioblog. Paolo here again for another episode. Today I have a special guest with me, Frank Fariello from the fantastic blog, Memorie di Angelina. Hi, Frank. Good morning.
Frank Fariello
Hey Paolo, how are you doing?
Paolo Rigiroli
Good. Thanks so much for accepting to connect with me. It’s an honor.
Frank Fariello
Oh, it’s my pleasure.
Paolo Rigiroli
Frank accepted to be interviewed, and I have prepared a lot of questions. I’m sure, like me, you’ll be very interested to know his answers. We want to know a lot more about you, Frank.
Frank Fariello
Uh oh…
Paolo Rigiroli
So let’s start from, of course, from you. Do you want to introduce yourself to our listeners?
Frank Fariello
Sure, why not? My name is Frank, as you know. I’ve got an Italian last name, Fariello. I am from New York originally. I was born in New York City actually, but lived in the suburban part of New York for most of my childhood. I am a lawyer by training and by profession, and still continue to practice law, but I’ve spent a great deal of my adult life outside of the United States. I actually took some time off [from the profession]. I was thinking about leaving the law at a certain point in my life. I had about ten years under my belt as a corporate lawyer in New York and was kind of tired of the rat race.
Paolo Rigiroli
I see.
Frank Fariello
So I took some time off. I was thinking about becoming a professional chef. Cooking has always been my passion. I went and lived for a few years in Paris. There are great hotel schools, as you probably know, in Switzerland, in the French speaking part of the country. So my plan was to go to France, perfect my French, and then go on to [the Hotel School in] Lausanne. As you know, that was [where] one of the great Italian chefs of the time… a Milanese, named Gualtiero Marchesi [had been trained].
Paolo Rigiroli
Oh yeah, of course. Super famous.
Frank Fariello
Do remember him? Very famous. A little bit controversial, I understand, among some Italians. They called him “Il Francese” because he had a certain different way of approaching Italian cooking, but I had studied his work and found him quite inspiring. I knew that he had gone to Lausanne, to the [hotel] school there and wanted to kind of follow in his footsteps.
Frank Fariello
In any event, [I never made it to Lausanne.] I was [in Paris] for a couple years, then lived in Vienna for a couple more years. At that point, I had returned to the practice of law. Some old colleagues from New York had convinced me to get back into the profession, and they were based in Vienna and Moscow, so I was doing some work there. Then, in about 1995, so this is going back a few years, I saw an ad in the paper for an international organization based on Rome. Of course, I’m an international lawyer by trade, [but my practice had been in private international law]. I had always been interested in [practicing public international law] in an international organization. I applied [for the job] and “only” 9 months later, I was hired. I went down there and spent 10 years living in Rome.
Paolo Rigiroli
In Rome, in the city.
Frank Fariello
Yeah. That was a fantastic thing. I had always kind of wanted to… It sounds like a cliché of course, but wanted to sort of discover my roots. Actually, my roots are not in Rome, they’re farther south in Campania and Puglia. But still, it was a great opportunity. So I took it.
Paolo Rigiroli
Very interesting that you were at one point pursuing the career of becoming a chef, and considered changing [job] entirely. You know, it takes a lot of courage to do that. I’m not surprised that you were pulled back…
Frank Fariello
Yeah, well it takes a lot of courage, and maybe that’s why I didn’t do it ultimately!
Paolo Rigiroli
Yeah, but you did do something else. You started writing this blog that has become the most popular blog about Italian food today. So it is a fantastic achievement, and it obviously speaks to the quality of your work. I’m not surprised to see that your interest went as far as to bring you to Paris. So that really makes a lot of sense now.
Frank Fariello
Yeah. Thanks. Yeah, it is a great… That’s one of the great things about the blog. It allows me to enjoy the [culinary] world without, of course, the back breaking work and the horrendous hours of actually being a restaurateur.
Paolo Rigiroli
I see. Well, I’m sure it takes up a lot of time anyway, but certainly it is a different activity. Yes, I can see that. So when did you start Memorie di Angelina?
Frank Fariello
Well, it actually started out when I joined Facebook.
Paolo Rigiroli
Oh.
Frank Fariello
I didn’t set out to be a blogger, to be honest. I joined Facebook and, like a lot of people on Facebook, I started discovering old friends from high school and college and law school and all the rest of it. I decided I wanted to share some recipes with my friends, so I started posting recipes to my profile. That was a lot of fun and people were enjoying the recipes, but I was frustrated by the platform. It wasn’t really as flexible as I wanted it to be, so I cast around [for ideas] and decided to start a blog. Just for my friends, initially. That was the only ambition I had was to continue sharing those recipes, but to do it in a way that was easier to get the point across. And… the rest is history. The blog got some attention and, next thing I know, 5 years later I’m still blogging!
Paolo Rigiroli
Yes, and thank you for that. It’s a great resource for me as a cook, and of course a great point of reference (that I often quote) to talk about what I talk about, which is authenticity and Italian food of Italy today, which is something that has become sort of my battle – so to speak – to try and fix Italian food in North America. As you know, my battle is against the type of Italian-American food that is not advertised as such. I have respect for Italian-American cuisine, but I really think it should be called for what it is. I’m all for certification as well to try and, whenever possible, certify Italian food – continental Italian food of Italy today – as such. And I applaud any kind of certification like Pizza Verace, which is a great association based in Naples that certifies around the world, and Tuscanicious, which by the way you were just recently awarded. Congratulations.
Frank Fariello
Yes. Well thank you. That was a tremendous honor for me. It’s a great validation of the work I’m doing… My blog is about Italian cooking of all kinds, not really focused on Tuscan cooking in particular, so the award was, in a sense, a surprise. But a wonderful one.
Paolo Rigiroli
Yeah, it is a great honor, and you deserve so much. So yeah, authenticity is important, but I also find that many of those self-proclaimed Italian restaurants simply serve food that is just plain bad food. That is really sad to me. I really think that there is such thing as good food and bad food in general, and in fact a lot of my friends who actually have been to Italy told me that they really liked the real Italian food so much better. Which may signify that there is an absolute value to flavor. I don’t know how you feel about that.
Frank Fariello
I certainly agree. All kinds of cooking can be good, and I enjoy all different kinds of cooking. But I firmly believe there is such a thing as good food and bad food. Even as a kid, I remember comparing the Italian food that you might have in a restaurant with the food that my grandmother made, and I knew liked my grandmother’s food a lot better! To some extent, Italian food is a victim of its own popularity. And unfortunately restaurateurs-some of them who should know better, others who perhaps don’t-take advantage of that popularity to frankly make a buck on the cheap. I hate to put it that harshly, but I think in some cases that’s what it is.
Paolo Rigiroli
It’s marketing.
Frank Fariello
Yeah.
Paolo Rigiroli
Following a popular trend. When you say “Italian,” it seems to sell more. Right now they’re starting to say “Tuscan” or you know, “Sicilian,” trying to go down to the region which makes it [sound] even more authentic.
Frank Fariello
Yes, indeed. I don’t know if you know Nicoletta Tavella – she’s a fellow blogger. She also has a cooking school in Amsterdam, and I heard an interview with her with an Italian radio or TV… I can’t remember which. She was talking about some of the funny products that they sell in Holland, like “Tuscan pesto”, whatever that might be! So this is not just North America where this kind of thing happens. As you say, “Tuscan” has that caché. Never mind that there is no such thing as Tuscan pesto. But anyway…
Paolo Rigiroli
So Frank, speaking of authentic food, I would like to go back a little bit to your grandmother. Because you’re a third generation Italian-American, but yet you seem to have such a precise image of Italian food. Yours is not distorted at all. I’m Italian born and raised there. I spent my first 30 years there. I read you… I really cannot detect any difference in how I would describe it. You just describe it better than I would. It’s true.
Frank Fariello
That’s very kind of you to say. I think I have two advantages maybe over other Americans or other foreigners who are pursuing [the study of Italian cuisine]. One is I actually grew up with Italian cooking. My grandmother is the reason why my blog is called the way it is. It’s a tribute to her, because she really imprinted those flavors on my palate, if I can put it that way.
Paolo Rigiroli
That’s a good way [to put it].
Frank Fariello
At a very tender age, it’s so natural. She was special because she did not [compromise on authenticity]. Of course, she was first generation, and there’s a big difference as the generations proceed, in terms of assimilation and adaptation. She made her dishes just as she learned them growing up in Italy, in that small town in Campania. I verified that when I went to Italy and ate those same dishes, some of which I didn’t realize existed outside of my grandmother’s kitchen, by the way. I was almost shocked to see them on menus, in store windows. I remember once, it was around Christmas time, and we went down to the Amalfi coast for a vacation to get away from Rome for a bit, and I looked in a pastry shop window and found my grandmother’s honey balls: Truffoli! I had no idea they actually existed other than as an invention my grandmother had made. But she recreated all of those things, and quite well, I think, given what she had to work with. Of course she had to make some compromises, because not all ingredients were available in the US, especially back in those days. The other thing, of course, is that I spent 10 years living in Italy. That’s irreplaceable, too.
Paolo Rigiroli
Yes.
Frank Fariello
You know, getting to know Italian cooking, especially Rome because that’s where I was. But I liked to travel a lot, all throughout the country. And being a foodie, the first thing I wanted to do was try the local dishes. I used to ask people, “What should I try?” and “How do you make this?” And I’m an avid collector of cookbooks.
Paolo Rigiroli
Oh, I see.
Frank Fariello
Anywhere I went, I always bought a little local cookbook to find out what the local dishes were and try to recreate them when I get home and all of that.
Paolo Rigiroli
Yeah, and I love how you put these cookbooks as reference in your blog posts whenever you can, because… you can quote them, and use the collective knowledge that they accumulated into themselves. So we were talking about adaptation and the fact that Italian food sometimes, as generations go by, changes. Evolves. Why do you think this is happening? Is it a matter of adapting to the local palate, or is it more the fact that the ingredients are not available, or that the ingredients are different?
Frank Fariello
That’s a good question. I think originally, of course, it was about availability of ingredients. I think if you look at first generation, Italian Americans in particular, that was a big thing. [And then some differences reflect an expression of the diaspora community.] I sometimes talk about Italian American cooking as a sort of celebration of plenty. This is immigrant cooking, so it was made by people who came from very humble backgrounds. Certainly in my family that was the case. [They celebrated] the fact that they now could afford to have meat any time they wanted. So Sunday dinners were often kind of “meat fests”: We’d have the pasta dish, dressed with Neapolitan ragu`, with sausages and beef and all these other things… And then yet another meat course would come after that, usually roast chicken or something of this kind. So it’s a lot about just kind of enjoying the fact you can afford to have all of this food that perhaps back home you couldn’t. That’s of course the first generation.
Frank Fariello
I think the second generation is a bit different. And I saw this also, by the way, in reverse when I was living in Italy. Children of immigrants put a huge premium on fitting in and assimilating, and feeling that they were part of the country they were born in. Sometimes even almost in opposition to their parents’ generation.
Paolo Rigiroli
Oh yeah.
Frank Fariello
You’ve seen this probably–
Paolo Rigiroli
I have seen this. I know a lot of Italians. They have Italian last names so I approach them in the workplace, and often they actually… reject their origins. They don’t speak Italian, pretty much by choice. Yeah. It’s strange, but in a way, it’s assimilation. It is forcing yourself to stop being typecast, because I suppose it happens.
Frank Fariello
Absolutely. I think that that goes for the cooking as well, and eating habits and the rest. You kind of, you want to be kind of more American than the Americans.
Paolo Rigiroli
Right.
Frank Fariello
Of course, when you try to go back and recreate the dishes, that’s going to have an influence. And then there’s the third generation… I’m third generation – I think there’s a bifurcation here, because there’s some, like myself, who kind of want to recapture something.
Paolo Rigiroli
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Frank Fariello
Then there are others who just kind of keep on going and proceed with further Americanization, to the point where basically, other than the name, they are more or less indistinguishable from any other Americans.
Paolo Rigiroli
Yeah, absolutely. The problem is that some of them own a restaurant…
Frank Fariello
Yeah. Yes. That’s when things go awry!
Paolo Rigiroli
I saw this thing just yesterday. We were in this Italian café, I’m not going to say the name, and they had “Italian burgers”, okay? (You don’t see Frank, but he’s shocked!) With a side of pasta, of course (!) And I really like the place, actually. I go back there because they make really good omelettes, actually. They cook something that is not really an Italian dish, but they do it really well, and I really like them. But then they do these things… Just because they call themselves Italian, I think.
Frank Fariello
Yeah, that’s the marketing thing again. You sprinkle a little oregano on top of it or a little melted mozzarella or whatever, and suddenly it’s Italian this or that.
Paolo Rigiroli
Yeah, I know. What’s even worse is when you throw in ingredients that totally don’t fit in with a dish. You just posted today your carbonara, and you talk about cream as a common addition in North America, into carbonara. Obviously, that does not belong in the dish. It’s totally unnecessary, it changes it entirely. You know, in this case, the addition of ingredients is done in the attempt to… I don’t know, make the dish more rich. To make it more flavorful. I don’t know. What do you think?
Frank Fariello
Well… I think that’s often very true, and I agree about the cream. I think it actually, if anything, takes flavor away. But yeah, it’s probably meant to make the dish richer and more [appealing]. Again, this celebration of plenty that I talk about, and it can go a bit too far. It becomes almost an overdoing- extravagant. That’s true for example, in the use of herbs and spices and so on, which in fact is, as of course you know very well, not at all typical of good Italian cooking. Just the opposite. It’s all about discretion and balance.
Paolo Rigiroli
And balance. And I think, you know, the problem probably is that the fewer ingredients you have, the more they have to be right. They have to be flavorful, and they have to have the correct flavor. So maybe I’m thinking it could be that sometimes one adds more ingredients to try and compensate for the lack of flavor of local produce, which… wasn’t grown in the same sunny lands of Italy. I’m thinking tomatoes, as an example.
Frank Fariello
That’s the classic example, of course. It’s the bane of any Italians I talk to who come to the States, and I’m sure Canada is the same way… They always ask me: “Where are the good tomatoes?” It’s an endless search. Of course, you can find them if you go to a farmer’s market, but you have to really make an effort. The great thing about Italy is any old supermarket will offer you wonderful produce. Of course, it’s even better if you’re growing your own… I was very lucky because although I spent most of my stay in downtown Rome, for the last three years, we lived outside of town.
Paolo Rigiroli
I see.
Frank Fariello
In a kind of a rural area. I grew my own vegetables, my own tomatoes, my own zucchine. We even had hens, a hen house, and we got the eggs. If you’ve ever eaten eggs right from the hen, it’s just something incredible.
Paolo Rigiroli
And I have. My grandmother had eggs from her chickens. You’re right. It was incredible.
Frank Fariello
And we had peach trees, too. The peaches off the tree were something else. Of course, if you have a peach like that that’s dripping and sweet and lovely, you don’t need sugar on it. You don’t need anything on it. It’s just beautiful the way it is. I think you’re quite correct about how best quality ingredients makes lots of different extraneous flavors unnecessary. But if you don’t have that kind of quality ingredients, then of course, the temptation is to make up for it in other ways.
Paolo Rigiroli
Yeah. I can see that. Frank, I wanted to also talk a little more about you as a food blogger and the food blogging activity itself, and becoming as popular as you have become. The question that I have for you is, did popularity change you? Do you feel the pressure of having so many viewers to keep up and produce always more interesting [posts] and continue the volume of production?
Frank Fariello
Well, yes and no. I do try to blog once a week, [although lately I’ve been so busy it’s been more like once every two weeks]. I try to keep to that rhythm and not go beyond it, in part because I don’t want to raise expectations of people. In the middle of the week, or on off weeks, I will post old posts on my Facebook page. The great thing about cooking is, of course, nothing goes out of date. You can take a post from two years ago and send it out there, and people who haven’t seen it before will enjoy it. This posting schedule is realistic for me. I have a day job, like many bloggers. I kind of envy those who are dedicated full-time to the food business. That would be fantastic, but I’m not, so this is kind of a hobby for me. But I do try to stick to this schedule because I know that there are people who occasionally, if I slip, will send me messages like, “What happened? Where is this week’s installment?” Of course, I feel awfully guilty about that!
Paolo Rigiroli
I’m hungry. What happens?
Frank Fariello
Yeah. Right? But I try to keep it realistic. So you know, once a week is a realistic level [of commitment] for me.
Paolo Rigiroli
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Do you get a lot of requests? Do people ask you for a certain dish?
Frank Fariello
Yes. Yes. I do get requests from time to time. I try to put them on my list but I have a blog plan, so it can be a while until I get around to them. I’m trying to hit all the major dishes in the various regions. The vision I have for Memorie di Angelina is, more than a blog, as kind of an online cookbook.
Paolo Rigiroli
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Frank Fariello
So I am trying to be, if not comprehensive-because that’s practically impossible when you’re talking about a subject as vast as this one-but as complete as I can make it over time. So I do have a plan that I’m following, and if a request falls well within the plan, I’ll do it. Occasionally, it’ll be a request for something that’s actually Italian-American rather than Italian. That’s the other thing.
Paolo Rigiroli
Right.
Frank Fariello
I keep those requests on the “back burner”, because once in a while, usually on Columbus Day, I do like to feature an Italian-American dish.
Paolo Rigiroli
So you have a plan. Do you think you can just go on forever, just because it’s such a vast world?
Frank Fariello
Yes. Well, forever, perhaps not. But I won’t live forever, either, unfortunately. I think it’ll be a while until I run out of [dishes to write about]. I don’t really need “ideas” in the sense that, unlike other bloggers, I don’t really try to do creative things too much. But occasionally, I’ll feature my own take on a classic dish. Dishes generally have lots of variations, especially the more famous ones, so I’ll express my preference.
Paolo Rigiroli
I see.
Frank Fariello
I bring that much of my own personality to the dish, but I try to be faithful to the classic recipes. That makes it easy in a way. I don’t feel the need to invent things.
Paolo Rigiroli
I see, I see, I see.
Frank Fariello
Of course the repertoire of Italian dishes is so enormous that it’ll be awhile until I run out of recipes.
Paolo Rigiroli
Which is really fantastic. I guess there are also many other ways to present your work. I saw you have a Flipboard, I think it’s called, now.
Frank Fariello
Yes. Yes, my Memorie di Angelina Flipboard has become quite popular. It’s really taken off, and I’m pleasantly surprised. It was kind of a lark. We had a snow day once, and I said, “Let me put one together.” And the response has been excellent.
Paolo Rigiroli
Fantastic. I saw it. It’s really nice. It’s like a digital cookbook, a recipe book. I love the format. It’s awesome. Yeah.
Frank Fariello
I’m quite pleased with it.
Paolo Rigiroli
Have you ever thought about publishing an actual book?
Frank Fariello
I get that question quite a bit. I guess my answer is I’d love to, but when would I possibly find the time? This is the thing. Again, having a day job makes it difficult. But if I ever feel like I can take a couple months off, sabbatical, maybe. Why not?
Paolo Rigiroli
Why not? Looking forward to that. I just want to end this interview – thanks so much, Frank, it was amazing, of course – with one last question about your time spent in Italy.
Frank Fariello
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Paolo Rigiroli
If I were to ask you now, you’ve been back for a few years now, what do you miss the most?
Frank Fariello
Wow. That’s an interesting question. I guess, I mean… the food, I guess, would be one big thing. Probably the biggest, I mean, from the point of view of someone who is so obsessed with eating and food as I am. As we were talking about, the excellent quality of the raw ingredients you have to work with. It makes cooking so… In a way, almost too easy. You know?
Paolo Rigiroli
I know. I do know.
Frank Fariello
There’s so little you have to do to those ingredients to make them taste good. It’s fantastic. And beyond the food, of course the beauty of the country. And the warmth of the people. That’s a cliché, but I think it’s true. Well, Romans can be rough, too. But they’re always honest. I think the thing is that they may not always be polite, but they’re always themselves, and I appreciate that.
Paolo Rigiroli
Fantastic. Thanks, Frank. It was a great pleasure having you here. Well, we’ll keep in touch, and–
Frank Fariello
Absolutely.
Paolo Rigiroli
Maybe later on, we’ll have another chat together.
Frank Fariello
Look forward to it. Take care, now.
Paolo Rigiroli
Fantastic. Thanks so much again. Bye-bye.
Frank Fariello
Bye-bye.

Year Five: Complete!

I can hardly believe it has been 5 years since I started this project! Time flies when you’re having fun, and flies especially fast when you’re in good company – over this past year, I connected with many people and I like to believe that together we changed how Italian food is perceived around the world! Slightly, of course πŸ™‚

By far, the biggest networking opportunity came from participating in Turin Epicurean Capital, a food literature event that saw me as a moderator. Particularly, I continued to work with fellow participant Diana Zahuranec), who has since become a recurring guest in the podcast and a great contributor to its success.

My visit to Turin also allowed me to reconnect with friend wedding planner Valentina Lombardi, who introduced me to her new project: Experience Italy Travels, a service aimed to show international travelers the true side of Italy. To help reach that goal, Valentina offered me to write: β€œItaly: Instructions for Use”, a fun section where I try to explain the ins and outs of Italy and of the Italians. Naturally, I accepted enthusiastically!

Recently, I also had the honor of being interviewed by Rick Zullo, awarded blogger and author of popular ebooks, as part of his new podcast: The Fatal Charm of Italy. Our chat was a lot of fun – if you want to hear us talk about the unwritten food rules that Italians follow, and much more, please head over to Rick’s blog.

As this blog completes Year Five, I would like to thank all visitors and followers for their support in the form of feedback. Please continue sending me your comments, observations, and corrections – as a blogger, nothing makes me happier!

I was featured on Rick Zullo’s “The Fatal Charm of Italy” podcast!

A few days ago I had the pleasure to be invited by my friend, writer Rick Zullo to be part of his new podcast: “The Fatal Charm of Italy“. I had a fantastic time! Rick is such an amazing host, and his insatiable curiosity makes for a very insightful conversation. You can listen to the episode online or subscribe to the podcast in iTunes, which is definitely what I recommend!

During the episode we touched on:

  • The different perception on what “Italian food” means in North America, vs. continental Italy;
  • The reason why food is such a big deal to the Italians, and why the Italians follow so many food “rules”;
  • The difference in table service between Italian restaurants and North American restaurants.
I hope you’ll have as much fun listening to it than we had recording it!
Rick, thanks so much also for the kind words you used to introduce Disgraces on the Menu to your followers. Grazie di cuore, Γ¨ un onore!