Mark Preston is a food writer, a blogger, and the author of California Mission Cookery, a cookbook on the early cuisine of the Californio population, which he discovered while working as an archivist for the UCLA library.
Last October, he got in touch to tell me about his research on ragù, the Italian meat sauce; he wanted the opinion of an Italian on what he had found. This is how we started collaborating!
In this episode, Mark talks about his encounters with Italian cuisine while growing up in St. Louis, Missouri, and how this experience prompted him to travel to Europe, as he says, “just to go to Italy to eat!”
He also analyzes how the popularization of the Mediterranean diet may have caused a shift in preference from Thai to Italian in Los Angeles, where he now lives.
Finally, he reveals his thoughts on what, in the fifties, caused the Americans to go crazy for pizza! A trend which of course goes strong today.
Nick Zingale is an American of Italian descent who lived and traveled in Italy and Europe for seven months last year. He joins me in this episode for a fascinating overview of his experience abroad, which he documented on his personal blog – from working as an English teaching assistant, to his discovery of his ancestors’ native towns in Sicily and Molise, to his solo travel around the Italian peninsula. Throughout the episode, Nick shares plenty of insights on Italy and the Italians from his special point of view of someone who grew up in an Italian-American family.
During the episode, Nick mentions a documentary on the massive immigration of Italians in the United States and on how difficult it was for them to amalgamate with the American culture. You can get more information on this production at http://www.pbs.org/show/italian-americans.
I came to Vancouver in 2001, right after getting my Electronic Engineering degree. I had a six-month contract as a software engineer, joining an Italo-Canadian development team. Naturally, I was very excited for the professional experience that awaited me, but I was even more excited for the opportunity to discover a big new city in an enormous new continent – along with its language, its culture, and its food!
During my first few weeks, I trusted my Italian coworkers for food recommendations. They had been living in Vancouver for over a year already and had developed a liking for a pool of Asian and south Asian restaurants, but also for some Ethiopian and Greek establishments. I always loved discovering new cuisines, so I was happy to follow my coworkers around (also because I didn’t quite miss Italian food yet). During those days I learned how to use chopsticks and got to try a whole range of new dishes, including sushi – still one of my favorites.
When on my own, despite trying to expand my horizons to North American food, I kept going back to foreign food. Thinking of it, this is probably because “ethnic” restaurants were meant for foreigners – there, I could order my meal simply by pointing at a picture on the menu, or by reading the number next to it. In North American restaurants, instead, my Caucasian physiognomy was probably deceiving with regards to my language challenges – people expected me to speak English and therefore adjusted my words to their closest logical interpretation. This sometimes resulted in a different dish being brought to me instead of the one I ordered, like that time I was served a Caesar salad instead of a sesame salad, simply because I didn’t know the final ‘e’ in sesame is not silent.
Eventually, through trial and error, I learned how to order food. But I wasn’t totally immune to misadventure. One day, being quite desperate for something a bit more familiar, I stumbled into a McDonald’s and I distractedly ordered: “One cheeseburger and a beer.” In Italy every McDonald’s sells beer, so I mechanically assumed it would be an option in Vancouver as well. The guy at the till probably thought I skipped a word and gave me a burger and some kind of pop. Even though I realized quickly that it wasn’t beer (the fact that it came with a straw gave it away), I wasn’t really in a position to complain, as you can imagine. As I was eating my burger, I gulped down this strange soda. At first, I didn’t mind it, then I started experiencing the horrible feeling of having swallowed a cup of mouthwash! It took me months to realize that that day I had my first root beer. As of today, that root beer was my last!
I then moved from the hotel where I was staying into a small apartment. The kitchen wasn’t fully operative, but it had a microwave oven, so I thought I could try to cook some food for myself. Wandering around in a Superstore, I came across these large frozen “ravioli” filled with potatoes and cheese (the bag probably had the word ‘perogies’ written on it, but it didn’t register with me). The instructions on the package said that these dumplings could be cooked in the microwave, so I was hopeful they would be OK. I was completely wrong! These big, puffy semicircles were made of a thick, chewy dough which, despite having followed the cooking instructions, was definitely way undercooked and tasted quite funny. I ended up squeezing out the filling and eating it like mashed potatoes*.
“I was especially fascinated by the “marbled” one in which bright orange and pale orange cheese are twirled together.”
While at the Superstore, something else caught my attention. I noticed some big blocks of orange cheese, which I recognized as the same cheese that McDonald’s puts in its cheeseburgers. I had never seen the “real thing” in block-form before, and I was especially fascinated by the “marbled” one in which bright orange and pale orange cheese are twirled together. So, after the perogies disaster, I went to the fridge hoping to improve my meal by finishing it with a piece of cheese. Well, that night I realized that this crustless, rubbery orange product is not something you want to just eat with bread like you would for a piece of Fontina or Scamorza… it’s so dry that it’s almost impossible to swallow, and it really tastes quite bland.
After a few months of sushi, dim sum, moussaka, chicken korma, and unsatisfying cheese, my excitement for new foods was starting to wear off. One day, I suddenly craved pasta. Luckily, I happened to walk past a restaurant chain called: The Old Spaghetti Factory. Of course, I didn’t expect to find my mom’s pasta there, but I also didn’t expect it to be too different from it. After all, a pasta dish is a pasta dish, right? Not at all. I had found a completely different kind of Italian food. I was outraged! Spaghetti and Meatballs, Chicken Pesto Penne, Linguini Alfredo… I had never heard of any of these dishes when I was living in Italy. I had discovered a parallel universe!
“A pretty unappetizing one […] the portions were too big, the pasta was either drowning in sauce or looked pale and overcooked, and the sauces looked overly rich.” A pretty unappetizing one as well… the portions were too big, the pasta was either drowning in sauce or looked pale and overcooked, and the sauces looked overly rich. I ordered something which seemed a bit more familiar to me, clam linguini, but even that dish didn’t compare at all with the one I knew. I thought that maybe I had ended up in a strange “fusion” restaurant, but the more I looked around for other Italian restaurants, the more I became aware that they all served the same kind of unfamiliar dishes. “Don’t they know that Italians very rarely make spelling mistakes? It’s a phonetic language!”
Looking more closely at some of these self-proclaimed Italian restaurants, I was particularly surprised to find a slew of spelling mistakes printed on their menus, which I actually found quite offensive. Don’t they know that we have spell checkers in Italy? Don’t they know that Italians very rarely make spelling mistakes? It’s a phonetic language! In a few cases, I almost offered to correct the menus myself, but then I realized that maybe these errors were for the best after all, since they acted like unintentional warnings to native Italians, hopefully sending them off to the Chinese restaurant next door, perhaps with an equally misspelled menu, but that they would have never been able to call out.
Meanwhile, my first work contract had ended and I was offered a full-time job, which I actually still hold now, 15 years later. During the following years I kept running into distorted Italian food, and somehow Italian food was becoming even more popular in Vancouver. In 2010, I decided to have some fun and start a pretentious blog aimed at fixing Italian food in North America. In my opening post, I wrote: “I will say the proper ways to write the names of Italian dishes. And, from what I know, I will also try to say how the dish should look and taste… for sure I will say how the dish most definitely *shouldn’t* look or taste!”
This was just the beginning, though, and as I continued blogging my initial rant turned into something a bit more useful. I started investigating the root differences between the food of Italy and the food of North America, which are as much in the ingredients as in the culinary culture. I also learned that Italian-American food is a cuisine in its own right, historically rooted and not less authentic than the cuisine of Milan. However, I think that Italian-American food should be labeled as such, and I hope that going forward more restaurants and chefs will celebrate it by calling it out on their menus instead of labeling it as generically “Italian.”
Since I started the blog, however, things have begun to change. I am not sure I can take credit for it, but it’s indisputable that thanks to YouTube and true Italian food blogs people can get accurate descriptions of all kinds of cuisines directly from the people who grew up eating them. In this changing landscape, more and more Italian restaurateurs are discovering that they can be successful outside of Italy without compromising by adapting their menus to local expectations. As a result, the Italians abroad can more easily find the Italian food they’re familiar with.
I think that the new global awareness is also reflected in an increased availability of ingredients. Naturally, North America’s produce is still very different from the Italian because of climate and composition of the soil, but, at least in big cities, it is now easier to find Italian grocery stores and to cook traditional continental Italian without having to substitute any key ingredients. Overall, I don’t see this as globalization, but quite as the opposite – it’s a phenomenon which validates local realities and traditional cuisines, ultimately preserving them in their immense richness and protecting them from accidentally merging into one another. Cross pollination and fusion cuisine will of course still happen, but, hopefully, they will become more deliberate than they have been in the past. _____ * It took me years, but I eventually came across properly cooked east European perogies and discovered that they are actually delicious.↑
Jason and I used to be co-workers and in our lunch breaks we often talked about food, trying to explain the logic behind it, and comparing North American, Italian, and Japanese cultures. Being an avid podcast listener, and missing the days when I was an amateur radio host in Italy, I pitched to Jason the crazy idea of making a podcast from our chats. Of course he accepted without hesitation! As a result, Thoughts on the Table was born just over three years ago.
Even though Jason is no longer a co-host, the podcast continues to thrive, thanks to its notable guests and loyal listeners – including Jason himself, of course. In fact, I’m very happy to be publishing episode number fifty (that’s five-zero!) today.
In this special episode, Jason is back on the show with one of his topics. With our usual investigative approach, Jason and I theorize on why North Americans seem to focus on high ranking foods (the so-called “proteins”), relegating the rest of the dish to mere accompaniments, whereas the Italians – and the Japanese – value dishes in which the various components are paired harmoniously, and they have meals in which the dishes follow one another in a balanced progression.
As always, please join us in our discussion and let us know what you think by commenting on the episode. Thanks to everyone for your support and feedback!
This episode’s guest is Cannolo Award winner Ale Gambini, food blogger, recipe developer, and web series host. Ale just published her first cookbook titled A Queen in the Kitchen, which she dedicates to her grandma Fernanda and to the cuisine of her Milan and of northern Italy (which is where I’m from as well). Join us in our chat to hear us compare our notes and memories, and to learn more about northern Italian dishes which are largely unknown around the world.
Another year has elapsed – this blog just turned six!! As usual, I’d like to stop for a moment and look back at the last twelve months of blogging and podcasting. Before I do that, I would like to thank all who have been supporting me by reading, by listening, and especially by sharing their thoughts via personal messages and comments. It means a lot to me, please keep sending your feedback!
Finally, I’d like to add a note on a technical detail. Last October, this blog was migrated to WordPress! I can’t say it was a trivial task, but the process was much smoother than I initially thought – a testament to the platform and its amazing community. I hope you are enjoying the new layout and functionality.
All in all, year six has been a great year, with lots of new connections and ideas. I am very much looking forward to year seven with the same enthusiasm as when I started in 2010!
My guest today is Giulia Scarpaleggia from Jul’s Kitchen, an incredible project which includes a blog, food writing, food photography & videos, and a cooking school! Join me to hear from Giulia’s own voice how it all began and how it has evolved. During the episode we also talk about the recipe development that led Giulia to writing her fifth cookbook (currently being finalized) which will feature 100 recipes inspired by tradition, and which will not include Chicken Parmigiana – a dish you will not find it in Italy!
Silvia Arduino introduces My Italian Friends, a network of home restaurants and cooking workshops specifically tailored to travelers who are interested in a deeper intercultural exchange with the locals. Tune in to hear about this new service directly from Silvia, one of its members, and join us as we digress into the food of continental Italy, compared to what is generally regarded as “Italian food” in the rest of the the world.
Proxemics, the study of interpersonal communication, defines “personal space” as the cylinder of air surrounding each person which people consider as an extension of their body. The personal radius is largest between strangers and shrinks down the more people know one another, reaching zero (physical contact) for parent-child relationships and for couples. The personal radius also varies according to the difference in social ranking: individuals seem to demand more personal space when surrounded by people that they consider of lower social status, as a form of respect they think they deserve.
In North America, the standard socially acceptable distance between acquaintances having a conversation is around 4 feet. In Italy, instead, the norm is 2-3 feet(1), a distance that North Americans tend to reserve for intimate relationships. In Italy, it’s also common for people to establish extended physical contact when having an exchange. For instance, a person may reach for a friend’s forearm as a way to communicate openness and honesty or walk arm in arm with a coworker (of any gender) as they discuss something confidential.
The difference in the amount of personal space that people require can also be seen in the way they greet one another. In Italy, especially in the south, the double kiss on the cheeks is the standard greeting between acquaintances, not the business-like handshake. In North America, the hug (which is the equivalent of the double kiss) is instead reserved for close friends and family.
When forced in a tight environment such as an overcrowded transit vehicle, people adopt strategies to cope with the invasion of personal space. A theory is that they start to see others as lifeless(2), avoid eye contact, and wear their don’t-talk-to-me face. But things get even more interesting when there is enough space for people to decide how to arrange themselves, but not enough for them to fulfill their personal space requirements. This is the case for instance in a 10-person occupancy elevator, with 6 people in it.
In North America, people tend to line up towards the door, staring at the void and trying to move to the back when they know they’re going to be the last out, and to the front, if they’re going to be first.
In Italy people consider it rude to turn their back to others. This, combined with their general tendency to refuse to line up, results in people orienting themselves in a circle, turning their backs to the elevator’s walls.
The higher tolerance of Italians for an invasion of their personal space also reflects in their inclination to violate somebody else’s. As an example, when queuing up in a crowded post office, it’s relatively normal for people to end up shoulder to shoulder or in physical contact with the person in front, leaning against them slightly as to apply a gentle push (perhaps under the unconscious assumption that it can make the line go faster). This can also be observed when people crowd towards the counter when waiting to order their espresso, an operation which requires catching the barista’s eyes as soon as they inquire into who’s next.
But what is the cause of the different social behaviors and the varying level of interpersonal contact? One theory is that less personal space may be the result of living in densely populated cities. But this is not a sufficient condition. The Japanese, for instance, live in even tighter spaces than the Italians, and yet they are notoriously a no-contact society.
A more likely theory is that the populations of southern Europe and Latin America belong to highly expressive cultures traditionally devoted to living a communal life centered around churches and piazzas. This is likely due to the necessity of helping one another in regions of scarce resources and facilitated by the clemency of the weather. People belonging to these populations have become accustomed to collaborating with one another, which has made them emotionally and physically closer.
Besides the need for interaction, the tendency to grab people’s arm and pull them closer during a conversation may also derive from the necessity to be discrete when sharing private information. In that regard, a great example of confidential exchange is the one that catholic Italians are exposed to during confession, a sacrament bound to secrecy which requires the penitent and confessor to come close and whisper to one another.
But personal space can also be violated from far apart. This can be seen for instance in the way some Italians choose to be overly loud in public. Even if they are having a business conversation on the phone, they may raise their voice and begin gesticulating in order to establish their territory. In doing that they project confidence and power, they establish their social status and therefore enlarge their personal space.
There is one place, however, where Italians seem to require more privacy than North Americans: public toilets. In North America, the stalls are often only partially enclosed and the urinals can be side by side without any screens between them, or they may even be replaced with a communal trough. In Italy, instead, public bathrooms are often built with urinals that are well divided and stalls that are fully enclosed. One possible explanation for this difference is that by building open bathrooms, people are forced not to take advantage of these spaces as if they were personal (e.g. to conduct something illegal or immoral in it). Italians instead are less concerned with illegality or immorality, they care more about how they appear in public and therefore demand more privacy when they can’t look at their best.
___________ (1) Edward T. Hall (1990). The Hidden Dimension. (2) Sommer, Robert (1967). Sociofugal Space. American Journal of Sociology.
Featured Image: Palio di Siena by Janus Kinase [CC BY-SA 2.0], via Wikimedia Commons.
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